The Relationship-First Podcasting Blueprint: Dr. Jeremy Weisz on Networking, B2B Growth, and Lasting Impact with RISE 25

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Welcome to Podcasting Tech, a podcast that equips busy

 

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entrepreneurs engaged in podcasting with proven and cost effective

 

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solutions for achieving a professional sound and appearance. I'm

 

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Matthew Passi, your host and a fifteen year veteran in the podcasting

 

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space. We'll help you cut through the noise and offer guidance on software and

 

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hardware that can elevate the quality of your show. Tune in weekly

 

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for insightful interviews with tech creators, behind the scenes studio tours, and

 

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strategies for podcasting success. Head to

 

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podcastingtech.com to subscribe to this show on YouTube or your favorite

 

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podcast platform, and join us on this exciting journey to unlock the full

 

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potential of your podcast. Not

 

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everybody uses a podcast the exact same way. In fact, when you ask

 

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folks, how do you measure success of a podcast? You know, ask 10

 

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people, get 11 different answers. And our guest

 

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today was one of the first people who I who I know really

 

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took one of those more unique strategies and turned it into

 

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a, you know, full grown podcasting business and strategy for

 

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clients and one that I've seen done on a smaller scale, but not to their

 

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level and excited to get into it today. We are chatting with Jeremy

 

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Weiss. He's the cofounder of RISE twenty five Media. You can learn more about

 

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them at inspireinsider.com. Jeremy, it is great to see you and

 

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chat with you today. Matthew, thanks for having me. Great to see you.

 

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And even though he doesn't want me to say this, he is actually doctor Jeremy

 

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Weiss. He was a he is a chiropractor, was a chiropractor.

 

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So the question becomes, how do you go from doctor Jeremy Weiss to, you know,

 

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running a successful podcasting company, RISE

 

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twenty five? So, you know, it's

 

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funny. In chiropractic school, ever since I was little, my

 

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dad suffered with neck pain, and the only thing that helped helped him over

 

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time, even though he went to lots of doctors, was a chiropractor. So I decided

 

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early on, you know, I'm really into natural health.

 

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I, you know, I decided to do that as a profession.

 

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Going through chiropractic school, they don't teach you anything in business. Like, I think a

 

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lot of medical professions or if you're in law, whatever, it

 

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is professional school. They're not talking about business. Right? So when I got out of

 

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school, I knew how to be a chiropractor. I didn't really

 

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know how to run a business. So I was going to these marketing and,

 

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at that time, we're talking about, like,

 

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02/1967, these marketing conferences and

 

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some of them were Internet marketing conferences. You know, this thing

 

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called the lab and how you market online, and I

 

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stumbled across some early on people doing

 

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podcasting. Right? And I I don't even know at the time if we called

 

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it podcasting. I think it was called, like, online interviews or something.

 

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And it, like, was the perfect mix of my personality

 

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of curiosity, professional development,

 

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forming amazing relationships, and content. And so I

 

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started, podcasting at the time and and,

 

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you know, what happened was and this was not about the health profession. What

 

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happened was people started coming to me at that time asking me to help

 

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them, launch and run their podcast. Right? And so I'm

 

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like, sure. At that point, I built up a small

 

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team because, obviously, I was running a chiropractic practice full time. I couldn't do

 

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all the things, that I needed to do. And so I

 

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started helping people from the strategy,

 

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piece and and then all the back end related

 

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execution stuff. And so by accident, that turned into a separate

 

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business. Actually, I met my business partner,

 

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and you could probably appreciate this, Matthew. The, I tell

 

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people everything, almost everything good in my life tracks back to a

 

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podcast. Okay? Like, I did not meet my wife on a podcast, of course.

 

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Jordan Harbinger actually he's he runs Jordan Jordan Harbinger

 

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show. I think that he gets upwards of $10,000,000 a month. Did

 

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actually meet his wife through the podcast his podcast.

 

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And I think he told the story on my podcast at some point. But

 

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I did not meet my wife, but I did meet my business partner,

 

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through podcasting because he, John Corcoran, was early on the podcasting

 

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too. And I've met some best friends. I've

 

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gone to people's weddings. I've gone on family vacations with people I've met through the

 

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podcast. So that's kind of how it started, and,

 

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it took it took on a life of its own. Eventually, I

 

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exited the chiropractic business and focused full time on RISE

 

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twenty five, helping businesses with podcasts.

 

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Excellent. I I love the the idea of all the good things that have happened

 

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happened, you know, through someone you met on a podcast. That's how we met. Right?

 

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I mean, that's really how we met. We met through a podcast client. Right? Very

 

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famously, there's a gentleman, Dave Jackson, the podcasting space who, you

 

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know, he would say because my podcast, and He would have people tell stories of,

 

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you know, amazing and great things that have happened to them because of because they

 

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had a podcast, and so I always love hearing about that.

 

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So RISE 25, you know, as we were getting ready to hit record and I

 

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was telling you, right, we added this and we can clean this up and all

 

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that stuff, and you said, whatever, you know, whatever we say, just let it out

 

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there, you know, the the least amount of work possible. And it's

 

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because your approach to podcasting, your approach to

 

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how businesses, how professionals can get the most out of podcasting,

 

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differs greatly from what is the mainstream focus.

 

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Right? For most podcasting, the mainstream focus is

 

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largest audience possible, whether that's to monetize that

 

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audience or whether it's to sell products to that audience, build

 

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your, you know, huge, audience space so you can do other things with

 

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them. And and we've talked about it on this show too plenty of times, and

 

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I've done it personally, but not all podcasters care about the audience.

 

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Sometimes the the real focus is really the other person on the microphone.

 

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So tell me a little bit about your approach to podcasting and

 

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how your clients and how you've seen that return on investment

 

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through this medium. Yeah. That's a great question.

 

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And, sometimes, Matthew, I don't even realize that not

 

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everyone thinks like this. I'm like, okay. This is normal. But

 

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the the first part of what you said, I believe, you know, the medium of

 

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podcasting is amazing because it's really an authentic conversation.

 

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And so that's why I was like, just keep it in. Like,

 

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I like I think when people have

 

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blemishes, they're vulnerable, or they say things that like, I've

 

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mispronounced my name on my podcast before. Like, how is that possible? Well, I just

 

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leave it all in because who cares? It's fine.

 

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Right? People make mistakes, and it's fine to leave it

 

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all in there. So I believe because, you know, some of our clients

 

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also, they they have they got to where they are because they have a perfectionist

 

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sometimes mentality and they want everything perfect. And

 

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and I'm similar. Right? But I've just learned

 

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to let it flow. It's it's fine. This medium is

 

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an authentic conversation. And then, yeah, what you said about the

 

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largest audience, we do have to and when I'm

 

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talking, I'm really talking from a b to b podcasting standpoint.

 

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Right? So, like, if someone has, like, a comedy podcast or a

 

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true crime podcast, they really do, a lot of times, need

 

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audience, to, you

 

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know, to kind of push their initiatives forward. But when

 

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I'm talking about, like, a b to b business and they

 

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probably have a larger client lifetime value, for

 

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me, the relationships are key. It's not about the audience. It's

 

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not about the quantity. It's about the quality. Right? So, like,

 

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if we're working with, you know, a b to b SaaS company

 

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that specializes in ecommerce, for instance. Right? As an example,

 

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if they get in front of a million people, yeah, they could probably sell ads

 

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or if they get in front of, like, 10,000 people or something. But for

 

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them, if they sell a software software and the average client

 

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lifetime value for them is $10.20, $30.40,

 

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$50,000, you know, they really just wanna get

 

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in front of the niche of ecommerce people. Right? So

 

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the audience, it's more of a quality than the

 

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quantity piece. And so you said it, you know,

 

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what we really talk about and think about is

 

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our relationships. And for me, the number one thing in

 

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my life is a way looking at ways how I can give to my best

 

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relationships. And you're the same. Right? I've found no better

 

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way to profile the people and companies I admire and

 

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share with the world what they're working on on my podcast, and I could form

 

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a deeper relationship. Like, after this, like, we've known each other, but we will have

 

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a deeper relationship after the show. We get to

 

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chitchat and talk, you know, for however long.

 

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Right? And so it's about relationships, and so that's the way I think about

 

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it. And, you know, we talk about kinda our five

 

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steps to profit with a podcast, and I'm talking about b to b podcast.

 

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And the first step of that, process is

 

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really to create a dream two hundred. You know? And some people think of

 

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dream two hundred as, like, clients.

 

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We kind of think of it as, yeah, it could be clients, potential

 

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clients. It could also be strategic and referral partners. It could

 

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be big authorities in a specific space, arena. Like, if

 

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someone's in ecommerce or someone's in, you know, focus on dentists or

 

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someone focus on whatever genre they focus in on. And so

 

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that's kind of what we think about is all those amazing

 

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relationships in that specific niche that would be

 

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valuable to connect with, not only from, you know,

 

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obviously, you confer business back and forth, maybe, someone becomes

 

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a client, but also from a professional development standpoint. I've learned a lot

 

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in different industries that I've taken into my industry,

 

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from the podcast as well. So you

 

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say a a dream 200, and that doesn't always have to

 

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be your your target customers

 

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or your target clients. I I I don't know if I could come

 

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up with a dream 200. Like, where where does that list come from for a

 

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lot of people? Who you know, is it am I actually giving you specific

 

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names? Bob Smith, you know, Al Jensen,

 

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Jane Doe. Totally. Well, we we'll you know, the first

 

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stage when we work with someone is we help them develop that dream

 

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200, but I'll give you a few examples. Right? Now there's warm

 

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and there's cold. So I'll kinda separate them out. Right? So you have a lot

 

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of warm relationships over the past decade

 

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that, would fall into this category. Right? So we wanna

 

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explore those first, which is warm. But when we think of

 

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cold, I'll give you some examples. Right? There's some common

 

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trends that we see from, like, thinking of Dream 200 cold

 

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relationships. Right? So we think of who are,

 

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consultants consultants or practice management groups in your industry.

 

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Who are some trade associations, conferences,

 

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software people are using. Like, an example, like so I'll just say from the

 

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chiropractic niche. Let's say there was a digital agency

 

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and they focused on service professionals. And I know digital agencies

 

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that literally only focus on dentists or only focus on

 

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chiropractors. Right? Let's take the chiropractor niche. Well, there's,

 

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you know, a lot of practice management groups in the chiropractic

 

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industry, and these and I know because I've been a part of them. These practice

 

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management groups, people are paying a thousand a

 

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month. You know, they've been maybe paying 10,000 a year,

 

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20,000, 30 thousand. Right? They take their business seriously.

 

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Right? So if I could actually,

 

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you know, form relationships with some of these people who run these practice management

 

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groups, they have control of these

 

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reservoir of chiropractors. Right? And they I've, you

 

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know, I've seen people they could speak on stage at one of the conferences. They

 

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could do a webinar for them. There's all their ways they can collaborate. Right? So,

 

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we look at those categories to think of and brainstorm

 

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because most people in math here are like you. You're like, I don't know if

 

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I have I guarantee you, like, when I'm talking to someone, like, I don't someone

 

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has come to me, like, we only have we don't they were in oil and

 

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gas. We only have we know we only have

 

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232 potential clients in the space.

 

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Okay? Like, there's nothing else beyond that. And I'm like,

 

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okay. I'll play with you. I'll play along. Let's do

 

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this. Right? But once we got done with the process, we're like, okay.

 

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There's a lot more people in the space than maybe

 

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potential clients too. Right? So there's consultants in the

 

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oil and gas that don't do what this company does, you know,

 

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that has lots of clients in the space. So there's those are the categories

 

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we think about to kinda brainstorm under, to

 

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get that list of people, you know, in the in the

 

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industry or kind of the prefer. And so I

 

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imagine, right, you make this list of 200 people and the idea is to then

 

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see if these folks will come on, you know, be a guest on the podcast.

 

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But I'm guessing that being a guest on the podcast is

 

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like the smallest part of the puzzle.

 

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Right? Like, what is it actually what's actually gonna happen

 

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if I make this list of 200 and say the first ten people, you

 

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know, say yes? Like, where does it go from, great. You've been on the podcast.

 

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Now what? Yeah. So yeah. So the first step,

 

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obviously, create that dream 200. The second step is the

 

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outreach. People fail with the outreach. Right? Like, you said,

 

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okay. They come on. Some people are caught up in, well, I don't

 

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even know how to reach out. I don't know what to say. Right? So the

 

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outreach piece is the next piece typically, and

 

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it has to be a nicely copywritten message, right, with social proof and

 

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other elements. So let's assume, like you said, they say yes. Alright. They

 

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come on. Now it's, we get

 

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into the questions typically, and you get this question a lot, I'm sure, too, which

 

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is, okay. How do I produce amazing content? What's, like, the

 

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technology setup? They get caught up in the technology setup. Right?

 

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And, so they're comfortable once a person comes

 

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on and, like, you're using Riverside. I, you

 

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know, I use Zoom simply back whenever

 

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I started over fifteen years ago, there was no Zoom or Riverside. So

 

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I think I was using Skype video at the time and coaching people on how

 

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to set up on their computer. But there's a lot of options. Right? There's StreamYard.

 

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There's Riverside. There's Zoom. I I honestly don't care what people use

 

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as long as they're comfortable with it and it's an easy experience for the for

 

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the guest. And then obviously a mic setup. Right? I'm

 

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using a a Yeti, Blue Yeti. What do you use? That looks like a nice

 

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mic. Is that a Rode? What is that? No. It's an Electrovoice RE 20.

 

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Okay. It's a old mic I got from my old Wall Street Journal

 

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radio. It looks nice. You know, you could get one.

 

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You know, I think I have an ATR 2,100 over there. It's like a hundred

 

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bucks you can get get one. So once you have someone on, you're comfortable with

 

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the setup, it's professional. You know, really, for me,

 

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it's having a great conversation, and being

 

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curious. Right? So the content piece and what's in the content,

 

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and how the interview goes is is paramount because you want the person

 

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leaving being like, you know, that Matthew's awesome. That was fun.

 

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That was fun to talk to, ask good questions. And so,

 

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it's the content piece, right, which is, you know,

 

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just being curious. I tell people I kinda again, they're they have

 

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a they're all in their own head around this stuff, which is, oh my god.

 

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I'm interviewing someone. Like, you know, you and I are used to this, and we

 

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just have conversations. But some people aren't. They just show up and they're nervous. I

 

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had a really successful lady who grew,

 

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you know, her business to, like, 60 locations. And, you

 

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know, I was shocked of, you know, that she was a little

 

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nervous for the interview part. Right? And so just making him feel comfortable

 

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in in having that conversation. Right? Now afterwards,

 

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like, the way I think of it broadly is how do I give

 

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as much as humanly possible for this person? Right?

 

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Because it's not about it's this is gonna sound weird, Matthew. Okay?

 

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I don't have someone on my show to get a

 

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client. I don't have show someone on my show to get a partner.

 

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Okay? What I do have someone on my show is my goal is to actually

 

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get them a client or to get them a partner, introduce them.

 

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Now if it's someone like we are talking, we help a lot of people in

 

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the b to b SaaS business, a lot of people in in in agency

 

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space, in manufacturing, in b two b, you know, type of

 

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space. I know if they're, you know, in the market or they

 

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know someone and if I have a SaaS founder on, it's more to make an

 

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introduction to them who could be a maybe a client or a partner.

 

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And that's my goal. Right? Because I'm just trying to give to them. I profile

 

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them. Obviously, the episode comes out. And so, like, I'm looking

 

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for those touch points of how I can give to that individual and further the

 

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relationship. Right? Because it's not, for me, it's not transactional.

 

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I'm not there. Obviously, if we do business together, awesome.

 

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But, my main goal is to just have those touch

 

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points and those gives. And the for me, one of the biggest touch points is

 

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obviously we we record the episode, then we push it out, as

 

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a separate blog post. Then we'll do a snippet of it, push it out on

 

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social. And we may do multiple snippets of it and push it out over social

 

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over a month, six months, a year. Then I'm looking at who I can

 

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introduce them to. Right? And so those touch points, and then if

 

Speaker:00:17:45

I'm in the area, like we talked about, I said, Matthew, if you're in Chicago,

 

Speaker:00:17:49

let me know. You know, like, if we're in the same city, I tell them

 

Speaker:00:17:52

and people do come through Chicago. So they're they'll contact me, like,

 

Speaker:00:17:56

hey. I'm here, and we'll maybe go to dinner or I'll get a group of

 

Speaker:00:17:59

entrepreneurs and go to dinner. I was just in Miami,

 

Speaker:00:18:03

for, an event, and I put together 50

 

Speaker:00:18:07

entrepreneurs, and we did a networking at a brewery.

 

Speaker:00:18:10

And these like, there was a bunch who were past podcast guests who I just

 

Speaker:00:18:14

reached out to and we actually touched you know, we're able to get that touch

 

Speaker:00:18:18

point in person and meet in person. So it goes beyond the like,

 

Speaker:00:18:21

you're saying, what do you do? Now, obviously, I make it

 

Speaker:00:18:25

known. They know what I do. Like, I don't need to, like, shove it in

 

Speaker:00:18:28

their face. You know? So they know what I do at that point,

 

Speaker:00:18:31

and it I kinda let it naturally flow. Not everyone's like that, but

 

Speaker:00:18:35

I that's just my my philosophy. It so you

 

Speaker:00:18:39

really are playing a long game. And and I don't mean to use game

 

Speaker:00:18:43

like this isn't a joke. Right? This is you you're not being inauthentic

 

Speaker:00:18:47

when you do these things, but, you know, that that's the language that we use

 

Speaker:00:18:50

to describe this. So this isn't about a short term return. Right?

 

Speaker:00:18:54

I'm not hiring RISE twenty five because I need to, you know, increase sales

 

Speaker:00:18:58

by 200,000 percent over the next twelve weeks, and, you

 

Speaker:00:19:01

guys are promising me that. This is how to

 

Speaker:00:19:05

grow and expand your network and community,

 

Speaker:00:19:09

which will eventually lead to more success and more

 

Speaker:00:19:13

opportunities down the road. That's totally fair to say.

 

Speaker:00:19:16

Yeah. So I'm curious then. So

 

Speaker:00:19:20

you've been doing this for quite some time now. Right? This isn't

 

Speaker:00:19:24

a a new thing for you. You've seen changes in podcasting.

 

Speaker:00:19:28

Has any of the changes in podcasting really changed your approach

 

Speaker:00:19:31

or your strategy, or or is it fairly constant

 

Speaker:00:19:35

because it's less about the technical

 

Speaker:00:19:38

nature of podcasting and more just about this is a

 

Speaker:00:19:42

great way to network and grow and

 

Speaker:00:19:46

meet people? Yeah. A %. Yeah. It it it, it's a

 

Speaker:00:19:50

good question. I can't say it has changed

 

Speaker:00:19:54

anything. I think it it, for

 

Speaker:00:19:57

for in in some respects, it's actually accelerated that thought process. You

 

Speaker:00:20:01

know? I remember, you know, what during COVID, people couldn't meet

 

Speaker:00:20:05

in person, and they were trying to find ways, which I

 

Speaker:00:20:09

think, you know, to you and me, it seemed pretty obvious. Like

 

Speaker:00:20:13

but people not everyone was using Zoom. Not everyone

 

Speaker:00:20:16

was using virtual meetings as frequently, as I

 

Speaker:00:20:20

was or you were. And so it some for some people, it's a

 

Speaker:00:20:24

novel concept. Like, they depended on networking groups in

 

Speaker:00:20:27

person. They depended on events in person, and they needed to find a

 

Speaker:00:20:31

way to really connect with people outside of that. So I

 

Speaker:00:20:35

think what I found, that COVID really

 

Speaker:00:20:38

accelerated that process and people were open and

 

Speaker:00:20:42

using those mediums, the the virtual mediums

 

Speaker:00:20:45

to actually connect. And we got a flood of people like, okay. I can't

 

Speaker:00:20:49

do all the stuff I was normally doing in person. What do I do?

 

Speaker:00:20:53

And so it was just the same stuff that we

 

Speaker:00:20:56

were, doing ourselves and and helping

 

Speaker:00:21:00

our clients do as well. Have you ever seen

 

Speaker:00:21:04

this not work? And if

 

Speaker:00:21:08

so, what was it that

 

Speaker:00:21:11

was not that I'm questioning the strategy, but maybe

 

Speaker:00:21:15

the the the person who was executing it. Right? Like, you guys have a game

 

Speaker:00:21:18

plan. You've seen it work. You've you've got the case studies. Right? You've got the

 

Speaker:00:21:22

proof. But I'm sure somebody came along, was like, I wanna do this. It didn't

 

Speaker:00:21:25

work. And, you know, I'm sure they've tried to blame you, but you're like, here's

 

Speaker:00:21:28

what really happened. Have you seen it? Oh, that's funny.

 

Speaker:00:21:33

No. No one ever blames no. Of course. Yeah.

 

Speaker:00:21:39

The way I think of it, Matthew, is that it's an if,

 

Speaker:00:21:43

it's a it's a when, not if. Okay? So,

 

Speaker:00:21:47

what I mean by that is,

 

Speaker:00:21:51

one, you know, when does it not work? Well,

 

Speaker:00:21:55

you're you're you're gonna hear my opinion here. When when someone's not as

 

Speaker:00:21:58

coachable, it doesn't work. When they there are certain elements that we want

 

Speaker:00:22:02

them to do, within the interview, before the

 

Speaker:00:22:06

interview, and the reach out. And so

 

Speaker:00:22:10

the when it doesn't work is they're not

 

Speaker:00:22:13

reaching out to the right people. One. Okay. So we're talking about the

 

Speaker:00:22:17

dream 200. People get,

 

Speaker:00:22:21

there's there's a little bit I I don't know if ego is too strong a

 

Speaker:00:22:24

word. I don't mean it in a negative sense, but, like, people are going after,

 

Speaker:00:22:28

like, big names, okay, in whatever

 

Speaker:00:22:32

industry or in all industries. Right? And they're focused on big

 

Speaker:00:22:36

names. What I have found with big names

 

Speaker:00:22:40

is what happens, they

 

Speaker:00:22:45

usually, people are like, oh, they have a big audience or big name. I find

 

Speaker:00:22:49

that the smaller the the guests who have smaller followings who aren't

 

Speaker:00:22:52

as big, quote, unquote, whatever big means, actually promote the

 

Speaker:00:22:56

episode more, get more views. And you're I see you nodding

 

Speaker:00:23:00

here because you you you can relate to this. When people just go after big

 

Speaker:00:23:04

name after big name after big name, they think it's going

 

Speaker:00:23:07

to result in all this audience and all these downloads,

 

Speaker:00:23:11

and that person's probably been on 30 other shows. Right? And

 

Speaker:00:23:15

they're probably not they're just busy. They're not gonna take the time to promote the

 

Speaker:00:23:19

episode like someone else would. So I see people

 

Speaker:00:23:22

going after and that that is one category. Like, when I think

 

Speaker:00:23:26

of five types of categories of types of guests or types of

 

Speaker:00:23:29

episodes, that is a a an important one to have

 

Speaker:00:23:33

authorities, big authorities. But they don't have to be like, a

 

Speaker:00:23:37

household name. They could just be a specific niche.

 

Speaker:00:23:40

Okay? I remember someone mentioned,

 

Speaker:00:23:45

the godfather of HR, Matthew, okay, on the on my

 

Speaker:00:23:48

podcast. Okay? And I was like, oh, who's the godfather of HR?

 

Speaker:00:23:52

Right? I've never heard of this person. And the thing is, in the HR

 

Speaker:00:23:56

community, people have heard of the person. But outside of it,

 

Speaker:00:24:00

they didn't. So it was interesting because,

 

Speaker:00:24:05

you know, having that person on was a big authority in certain

 

Speaker:00:24:08

spaces, but, you know, the thing is,

 

Speaker:00:24:13

they weren't like this huge name. I don't even know.

 

Speaker:00:24:17

Well, you know, to give an example, I don't know if

 

Speaker:00:24:20

someone is like Tony Robbins or something. Right? And, like, you know, Tony

 

Speaker:00:24:24

Robbins would be an amazing guest to have. I I love his stuff.

 

Speaker:00:24:27

I'm sure he I don't know if he's really gonna promote the episode afterwards because

 

Speaker:00:24:31

he's so busy. But, I had, Dave Ulrich

 

Speaker:00:24:34

on. Right? Who is someone called him

 

Speaker:00:24:38

the the godfather of HR. He had on he was

 

Speaker:00:24:42

super nice. So focusing on the wrong types of guests

 

Speaker:00:24:46

too much, I think, is a mistake I see people make.

 

Speaker:00:24:51

I see people, you know, kinda being a perfectionist.

 

Speaker:00:24:55

So they need to have everything perfect, for

 

Speaker:00:24:59

the show. So they're not reaching out enough to their

 

Speaker:00:25:03

network of people. They're really kind of, not doing

 

Speaker:00:25:06

as many episodes as they should. Right? Because in the end,

 

Speaker:00:25:10

if I if I have and I release, like, two to three episodes a week.

 

Speaker:00:25:14

Okay? And I have for probably a decade.

 

Speaker:00:25:18

If I have a hundred to a 50 people on my show,

 

Speaker:00:25:22

a hundred, you know, 50 relationships this year that I build further,

 

Speaker:00:25:26

you know, not all of them are gonna become partners or we're

 

Speaker:00:25:30

gonna form a deep relationship. Let's say 10% only do. Right? So we're

 

Speaker:00:25:34

only talking, like, 10 people. Well, someone's like, well, I'm gonna

 

Speaker:00:25:38

just do one a month, one episode a month. Well,

 

Speaker:00:25:41

that's 12 people. Right? So how many

 

Speaker:00:25:45

relationships are you building and furthering?

 

Speaker:00:25:48

You know, there's just less of a chance. Right? Now they'll

 

Speaker:00:25:52

they'll do the same in ten years that I will in one year.

 

Speaker:00:25:56

Okay? And so for me, it's a it's

 

Speaker:00:26:00

a it's a when. It's not an if situation. If they're

 

Speaker:00:26:03

focused on the right people, if they have, you know, the

 

Speaker:00:26:07

number of people that they're they're doing and then focused on the wrong

 

Speaker:00:26:11

things. Like, you mentioned the the metrics. Right? If someone

 

Speaker:00:26:14

I haven't looked at my metrics in I don't even

 

Speaker:00:26:18

know how long, nine years or something. Like, I have no idea what the metrics

 

Speaker:00:26:22

are but if someone's focused on the metrics, which is, in my opinion,

 

Speaker:00:26:26

vanity metrics, which is like how many likes did I get, how

 

Speaker:00:26:29

many views did I get. I'm looking at the relationship metrics like

 

Speaker:00:26:33

how many amazing relationships have I formed this past year from the

 

Speaker:00:26:37

podcast? So I think it's focusing on the wrong

 

Speaker:00:26:41

metrics, which is like audience or downloads

 

Speaker:00:26:45

or, you know, all of those things. And that's where I see people fail

 

Speaker:00:26:49

because, like, it it's they're never gonna have and someone said this

 

Speaker:00:26:53

I was listening to a podcast the other day. They said this perfectly. They go,

 

Speaker:00:26:56

no matter what my metrics are, I'm not gonna be happy. This is what the

 

Speaker:00:27:00

person said. They go, if I have a hundred listeners, I'm like, I want 200.

 

Speaker:00:27:03

If I have 10,000 listeners, I want 15,000. If I want

 

Speaker:00:27:06

20,000, you know, so those

 

Speaker:00:27:10

aren't the metrics that I look at. And so if someone's

 

Speaker:00:27:14

measuring their success on those metrics,

 

Speaker:00:27:18

it's gonna be very hard to be satisfied with that.

 

Speaker:00:27:21

Well, and we we know metrics can be gained too because there are people who

 

Speaker:00:27:25

are popping into our LinkedIn inboxes and Facebook who are saying,

 

Speaker:00:27:29

you know, I'll sell you 20,000 downloads. I'll say this. Nobody ever pops in your

 

Speaker:00:27:32

inbox saying, I will sell you 10 genuine relationships with people in your

 

Speaker:00:27:36

industry that are gonna make your life better. So, you know, that's, that's not a

 

Speaker:00:27:40

real product. And, you know, going back to your point about getting these bigger names,

 

Speaker:00:27:43

right, the Tony Robbins, everybody wants a Elon Musk or a Tim Cook on their

 

Speaker:00:27:47

show, I agree with you. One, these big name

 

Speaker:00:27:50

guests, they're not going to lead to long

 

Speaker:00:27:54

term sustainable audience growth. One, because that person

 

Speaker:00:27:58

probably isn't going to share it and, you

 

Speaker:00:28:02

know, talk about it in a genuine way that would actually lead to that

 

Speaker:00:28:06

kind of growth you're looking for. Maybe their publicist or their social seems like, oh,

 

Speaker:00:28:09

yeah. We were on the show. Yay. But more importantly,

 

Speaker:00:28:13

if if you get a Elon Musk on your show,

 

Speaker:00:28:17

you're going to get a huge number of people who are fans of

 

Speaker:00:28:20

Elon Musk. Right? They are going to track him from this podcast to

 

Speaker:00:28:24

this podcast to this podcast, and maybe,

 

Speaker:00:28:28

maybe you shave a few of those off to become regular listeners of

 

Speaker:00:28:31

yours, but they didn't come to your show for you. They came for

 

Speaker:00:28:35

him. And so I agree. Finding the

 

Speaker:00:28:39

right guest, the right guest that provide the value to your audience

 

Speaker:00:28:43

is way more important than finding the person with the most followers, the

 

Speaker:00:28:47

biggest name. Right? All all those vanity metrics that at the end

 

Speaker:00:28:51

of the day, that is just quantity and not quality for

 

Speaker:00:28:54

both you and for your audience. I mean, there is a

 

Speaker:00:28:59

so real quick. I just wanna piggyback on that, Matthew. I agree with

 

Speaker:00:29:02

that. I think that there is a place for those

 

Speaker:00:29:06

type of guests, like, a big authorities,

 

Speaker:00:29:10

you know, but the place for me is like, I've had the cofounder of

 

Speaker:00:29:13

Pixar and Atari and p ninety x and RXBAR and Quest

 

Speaker:00:29:17

Nutrition. The point of those is it's like when

 

Speaker:00:29:21

I'm reaching out, let's say I'm in the manufacturing space, if I reach out to

 

Speaker:00:29:24

a president of a manufacturing company, it's more from a social proof

 

Speaker:00:29:28

perspective. Right? I don't need dozens of

 

Speaker:00:29:31

these. Right? I need a couple that are like, oh, damn. This

 

Speaker:00:29:35

person's legit. Look at some of the guests he's had on, and

 

Speaker:00:29:38

it legitimizes it in a sense. So I think there is a

 

Speaker:00:29:42

place for those but not from, like, a gaining audience perspective, more from,

 

Speaker:00:29:46

like, a building more relationship from that space perspective. True.

 

Speaker:00:29:50

Yeah. Then, you know, again, also in a vanity perspective. Scarcity is available. There is

 

Speaker:00:29:53

some vanity. There's a social proof. There's social proof. No doubt. Right.

 

Speaker:00:29:57

Right. The big Tony Robbins Elon Musk will do more for your

 

Speaker:00:30:01

ego, vanity, you know, your, your

 

Speaker:00:30:05

marketing than it will for actual quality, audience growth, I I

 

Speaker:00:30:08

would say, in the long term, in most cases. Some people will do it well,

 

Speaker:00:30:11

most of us will not. As a reminder, we are chatting with Jeremy

 

Speaker:00:30:15

Weiss, cofounder of RISE twenty five. You can learn more at

 

Speaker:00:30:18

inspiredinsider.com. Jeremy, I have a feeling we could talk about this

 

Speaker:00:30:22

for four days if, we have the time, but, you know, you have lots

 

Speaker:00:30:26

of folks to meet and and, you know, build relationships with. I've got three

 

Speaker:00:30:29

last questions I wanna ask before we let you go. The first is, you know,

 

Speaker:00:30:32

since you have such a unique perspective on this space, I'm curious if there's any

 

Speaker:00:30:36

place where you would like to see additional improvement in podcasting,

 

Speaker:00:30:40

something that you're just like, god, I wish we as an industry did this better.

 

Speaker:00:30:45

You know, I I think, you know, you were mentioning

 

Speaker:00:30:48

this, subscribers download, those things

 

Speaker:00:30:52

is kind of like a black box. Right? You can't there's no visibility

 

Speaker:00:30:56

into that. Like, when you look at YouTube, right,

 

Speaker:00:31:00

you can go and see how many views are worth. There's, like, complete visibility

 

Speaker:00:31:04

there. Right? I find that I don't know if you get these

 

Speaker:00:31:08

these messages go, I'm a top 1% podcast. I have x

 

Speaker:00:31:11

number of down I can't prove or disprove any of those statements, what what

 

Speaker:00:31:15

people say. I think the metrics

 

Speaker:00:31:18

piece is, there's just not

 

Speaker:00:31:22

that same visibility, from

 

Speaker:00:31:26

that perspective. And and the thing is I don't even care about metrics in general

 

Speaker:00:31:30

personally, but people I think I've seen

 

Speaker:00:31:33

them like, I know from behind the

 

Speaker:00:31:37

scenes, they aren't huge and they're telling people, like, how big

 

Speaker:00:31:41

they are and how many downloads. So there isn't, like, a visibility

 

Speaker:00:31:44

there. Yeah. It'd be nice if

 

Speaker:00:31:48

if not only could it'd be nice to be able to

 

Speaker:00:31:51

verify people's stats. Right? You go to YouTube, you see views, you see subscribers.

 

Speaker:00:31:56

Podcast, it's if I share it, great. And also,

 

Speaker:00:32:00

you have to trust the one I'm sharing is true because it

 

Speaker:00:32:03

would not be beyond the reasonable doubt for people to lie about their podcast. That's

 

Speaker:00:32:07

not what it is. Yeah. I've I've seen it.

 

Speaker:00:32:11

Yeah. Is there any tech on your wish list?

 

Speaker:00:32:15

Again, you're not a podcasting perfectionist, but,

 

Speaker:00:32:19

you know, is there, is there a device or software that you're like, god, I

 

Speaker:00:32:22

I've been waiting in my hands on this or maybe more importantly,

 

Speaker:00:32:26

there was something that, you're like, man, I need somebody to make this to make

 

Speaker:00:32:30

my life easier. You know, there could be

 

Speaker:00:32:33

this, and I don't even know it. Matthew, so you'll you'll tell me if there

 

Speaker:00:32:37

is. Because I know there are companies that do

 

Speaker:00:32:41

this, but I just haven't really explored it that much.

 

Speaker:00:32:46

I know that, like, I've talked to people and

 

Speaker:00:32:51

sponsoring is kind of fragmented. Right? So, like,

 

Speaker:00:32:55

if, there's only certain companies,

 

Speaker:00:33:00

and I know there's a couple, I'm blanking on the name that actually

 

Speaker:00:33:04

sold to a larger company, but,

 

Speaker:00:33:07

something for, like, smaller shows that they can

 

Speaker:00:33:11

get and do either exchange or pay to,

 

Speaker:00:33:15

you know, sponsor on each other's podcasts.

 

Speaker:00:33:19

I know there's some companies out there, but I don't know. Usually,

 

Speaker:00:33:23

what I've seen is they're just larger companies that are on there that

 

Speaker:00:33:27

will sponsor, and they're not so much focused

 

Speaker:00:33:31

on the quality. They're it's more just based on the numbers. Like, oh, we're paying

 

Speaker:00:33:34

x number of 10,000 downloads or something like

 

Speaker:00:33:37

that. So Yeah. That that stuff does exist out there. I I

 

Speaker:00:33:41

can't remember the name of them right now, but there have been a few of

 

Speaker:00:33:44

those. Some of them have been acquired and, you know,

 

Speaker:00:33:47

changed. And some of them, I think they wanna do exactly what you say,

 

Speaker:00:33:51

but they run into the problem that we just talked about, which is, oh, you

 

Speaker:00:33:55

know, I wanna promote my show with this other person. This person claims they get

 

Speaker:00:33:58

15,000 downloads, but, you know,

 

Speaker:00:34:02

when push came to shove, they were getting 20. Right? So it it

 

Speaker:00:34:06

it there was trust issues there, but I I agree that would be nice to

 

Speaker:00:34:09

have a a good platform like that. Lastly, are there any podcasts on

 

Speaker:00:34:13

your playlist that you have to listen to? Any that,

 

Speaker:00:34:17

you know, you just you won't let an episode of the show go by,

 

Speaker:00:34:21

or if you a new episode comes out, you're stopping what you're doing and listening

 

Speaker:00:34:24

to that instead? It's funny.

 

Speaker:00:34:28

I listen to everything on YouTube. So and, usually,

 

Speaker:00:34:32

I'm listening to it because I'm researching guests. Right? And

 

Speaker:00:34:35

so I'm listening to a lot of different types of podcasts. So I do

 

Speaker:00:34:39

I have listened to, Jason Swank's podcast. He

 

Speaker:00:34:43

specializes in digital agencies. I may have

 

Speaker:00:34:47

listened to, I'll admit it to you. I don't know if I'll admit it to

 

Speaker:00:34:50

him. His head will get big. But maybe, like, 350 or so

 

Speaker:00:34:54

episodes of his show. He's been doing it for a long time. I listen

 

Speaker:00:34:57

to John Corcoran's show, Smart Business Revolution. I

 

Speaker:00:35:01

listen to Jordan Harbinger's show. He's got a lot of really

 

Speaker:00:35:05

interesting guests. He does a lot of research, as well for

 

Speaker:00:35:08

his show, and just whatever

 

Speaker:00:35:12

else, when I'm researching, I'll stumble across

 

Speaker:00:35:16

other specific niche. So I'm looking more for like, at the guest

 

Speaker:00:35:19

than the show. So if I'm like, okay. I'm researching top

 

Speaker:00:35:23

people in, you know, agency space, I'll I'll

 

Speaker:00:35:27

research that and, listen to a couple episodes.

 

Speaker:00:35:31

Right. Very good. Well, once again, we have been

 

Speaker:00:35:35

chatting with Jeremy Weiss. He's the cofounder of Rise twenty

 

Speaker:00:35:39

five Media. You can learn more about them at

 

Speaker:00:35:41

inspiredinsider.com. And,

 

Speaker:00:35:44

yes, if you're someone out there who is thinking about how do I really use

 

Speaker:00:35:48

podcasting to grow my influence,

 

Speaker:00:35:52

grow my network, grow just me as a person, and then see

 

Speaker:00:35:55

where that can lead you. I I cannot stress that

 

Speaker:00:35:59

Jeremy's, firm is a great place to start with that with that question.

 

Speaker:00:36:03

So, Jeremy, good to see you. Thank you for joining me. Thanks for

 

Speaker:00:36:06

having me. Thanks for joining us today on Podcasting Tech.

 

Speaker:00:36:11

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Speaker:00:36:28

we'll see you next time on Podcasting Tech.